Joanne Mallon's Opposable Thumbs

In conversation with Zoe Williams

I first encountered Zoe Williams over a dozen years ago. I was working for Carlton TV as a producer for Thursday Night Live (a current affairs shoutathon presented by Nicky Campbell and Andrew Neil), and Zoe was a columnist for the Evening Standard. She appeared on the show a few times, despite the fact that the audiences could be really quite rude (the whole thing was like Question Time with the brakes off and an open bar).

Zoe Williams

Since then both she and I have gone on to have two children and write parenting books. Zoe is now best known as a Guardian columnist, but her work has also appeared in the Spectator, Marie Claire, Grazia, Red and the New Statesman.

I am best known for running a terrible competition and giving away a foot grater.

She was last year’s Columnist of the Year at the Workworld awards and is shortlisted for Feature of the Year for this year’s One World Media Awards.

I tweet a lot and drive a red Mini.

So, karma-wise, all is even in the Universe, which is as it should be.

Zoe's latest book, What Not to Expect When You're Expecting, is released soon, and it's a stright-talking book for pregnant women and new mothers.  Here she talks about what pregnant women need to know, and what she really thinks about Mumsnet and mummy blogging.

 

There are so many parenting books (and I can't complain about that having written one myself) - what does yours offer that's different?

ZW: It's funny, the exact same question came up a lot from  Guardian readers, many of whom were totally furious: "women have been giving birth for thousands of years! You seriously think we need YOU to tell us how cute your baby is?" I really puzzled over it, because my first thought was, "Man, they're right. What have I done?"

But in fact, I think it's like writing a book about falling in love, or cooking fish. Just because it's part of life doesn't mean that it's not a new story from everyone who tells it. If anything, I hope the difference in my book is how terrible I was at everything - the terrible moods, the awe-inspiring weight gain, the total refusal to listen to experts, on any matter, without shouting at them. I really hope anyone pregnant who's feeling cranky and bad about  herself can read this and think, "thank God I'm not that bad".

What's the one thing pregnant women need to know that they aren't currently usually told?

ZW: Oh, I'm very big on breastfeeding: two things pregnant women need to know. First is that it's amazing, if it works it's like being in heaven. Second is that it's not that big a deal. Most of the health claims are overstated (as you can read in my book!) So if it's not like being in heaven, don't kill yourself trying to do it.
 

And are there any parts of pregnancy that those who've gone through it need to keep schtum about? Or is all knowledge power?

ZW: Well, my sister had a two-year-old when I got pregnant, and was pregnant again herself, so it was fresh and present in her mind, and if she'd lied to me about it, I would have been able to tell. But the truth is, when people tell you frightening things (like, "you might poo yourself, but you'll be so out of it you don't notice" - and you think, how out of it would I have to be?), your  mind finds a way to explain them away. So I just listened to my sister and thought, "oh, she's always been the weaker of the pair of us, I'm sure I'll be fine" Ha! Like hell!

Do you think the expansion of the online world has helped or hindered mothers in general? I think that forums like Mumsnet and Netmums can be great for connecting people, and for quickly finding advice from people who've been where you are now. But they can also be the source of enormous judgementalism, over-thinking of simple issues and avoiding the real world.

ZW: I think the major things about the online world are exactly as you say - it makes you feel very supported, in a very particular way. People identify with each other really strongly if they've both got the same very specific problem (like, say, your daughter is anally retentive, or your son prefers Gordon to Thomas the Tank Engine, even though Gordon is clearly a dick) and are infinitely more useful to one another than the half-baked memories you get off your family (my mum told me that I'd gnawed a baguette down to the middle when I was six weeks old. So of course, when I had a six week old of my own, I assumed there was something terribly wrong with him, because he couldn't even hold his head up. My mum had obviously meant six months. The internet would never make this mistake).

But sure, as you say, you can get terrible tirades from strangers, and these seem to crop up more in parenting conversations than any others. My rule of thumb with that is that I would never put a point of view on t'internet more strongly than I would put it if I met someone at a party, and if anybody else does, I just don't listen to them because I don't think they've thought hard enough about how they're coming across.

In June Zoe will be speaking at the parent blogging conference BritMums Live. So what does she really think about the term 'mummy blogger'? Some people are very proud of the tag, whilst others find it incredibly patronising and hate it. And if Zoe wasn't writing regularly for The Guardian, would she blog?

ZW: Oh, it's funny the blogging idea - exactly the same slightly patronising conversations happen about foodie bloggers, and how they're not proper professionals because they take pictures of the food instead of describing it, and all they ever call anything is "tasty". But I think for someone deciding whether or not to go to a restaurant, a blog is often much more useful than a conventional review.

Speaking for myself, I have always found describing things, especially stressful or unknown or infuriating things, incredibly cathartic. Just the act of turning it into a story seems to take the sting out of it, even if the story pretty much always ends with me realising I'm wrong/ over-reacting/ under-reacting/ something. So I would always blog, if I weren't writing for the Guardian, and if blogs didn't exist, I'd probably write a lot of letters.

 

 What Not to Expect When You're Expecting by Zoe Williams is published by Guardian Books and released on 7th June 2012, RRP £7.99

I have 3 copies of the book to give away - check back here tomorrow to find out how you can win one

I'm hiring Johann Hari as my spin doctor

When I ran media training workshops, we used to talk about people's fear of being misrepresented in interviews. A certain amount of misquoting is understandable - the written word is never exactly the same as the spoken word.

If you're interviewed, the journalist will take out all the ums and ers and stick your half sentences together to make a whole, so that what you've said can be understood coherently by the reader. If they didn't, all but the most polished (AKA boring) interviewees would come across as illiterate.

And a good thing too, I thought as yesterday I gave a right dog's dinner of an interview. The journalist caught me on the hoof, chucked a subject at me which wasn't especially interesting and which I didn't exactly have a pint pot full of bon mots to chuck at.

Of course, 10 minutes after I'd put down the phone I was living in Soundbite City. I kept thinking of interesting things I could have said, but didn't, jokes I could have made but hadn't. It wasn't my finest hour. Let's hope I'm not quoted verbatim.

Jedward = the new Lady Gaga?

My mum got very excited when I told her I was interviewing Jedward. Turns out they're one of her favourites ("So charming!"). The last time she got this enthusiastic for a pop act was when she wanted a Lady Gaga CD for her 66th birthday.

Having recently met Take That and The Log Lady from Twin Peaks, I thought I could handle a strange celebrity encounter.

But could I handle Jedward? As it turns out, almost not.

When I arrived at the interview venue, the pavement was lined with girls waiting for them to arrive. One mum told me she'd come on the 5.30am coach from Birmingham that morning purely so her teenage daughter could follow Jedward around London.

And then - a tuft of hair and there he was:

Should the Daily Mail journalist who interviewed Juliet Shaw be named and shamed?

A sad tale emerged yesterday about a woman called Juliet Shaw and her experience of being interviewed as  a case study for a feature in the Daily Mail. The resulting story mashed up and changed the facts to the extent that it bore no resemblance to the interview Juliet thought she was giving, with ongoing negative consequences. Many of the comments on her blog post reveal similar experiences.

Recently at MediaWomenUK we have been discussing whether or not it's a good thing for journalists to show case studies what you've written about them before it's published. As an interviewee, I've had the full gamut of experiences, from the interview supposedly in first person quotes from me which bore very little resemblance to anything I'd said, to the journalists who send the whole piece for approval, or the subs (usually on monthly mags) who ring up to check that you actually did say what you're being quoted as saying.

The spoken word and the written word are different, and a certain amount of 'cleaning up' is to be expected when one is becoming the other. But since when did it become OK to insert untrue details and put words into people's mouths? A long time ago, unfortunately. But not everywhere, and not every journalist, by a long way.

The name of the journalist involved in the Daily Mail story is now circulating on at least two forums. The feature itself has been removed from the Mail's archive, but nothing ever goes away 100% once it's online, so the feature is still findable, if you care to look. I have no doubt that the journalist involved will be publicly outed before this story is over. The sensible thing would be for her to get in there first and tell her version of events. But since she is still working for the Mail, with a byline on another case study-led feature just ten days ago, she may prefer to keep quiet, or have been told to do so.

Commenters on Roy Greenslade's blog at The Guardian are calling for the journalist to be named and shamed. But really, what would that serve? All that does is make it about a person, when this story is about a much wider issue.

Should case studies be shown what's written about them before it's published? Should interviewees start taping any interview they give? Is anything true in the Daily Mail? What do you think?

 

pic: Flickr fontplaydotcom

Something Like a Phenomenon

So all went well with the U.S. radio show. Apparently I was a 'phenomenal' guest, which is the first time I've been called that by anyone sober.

Before the show, I chugged down industrial-sized quantities of Bach Rescue Remedy , which really seemed to help with pre-performance nerves. Because no matter how often you do these things, you still get nervous. Nerves are normal, particularly when you're doing something as downright unnatural as a media interview. Nerves are good (ish). Sometimes. Especially when you can get a hold of them and alchemise them into energy. It's when they get a hold of you that you have to watch out.

Live on PR101 Radio....'tis meself

Tomorrow (Wednesday 14th) I'll be appearing live on PR101 Radio at 8pm UK time (12pm PST) to talk about giving great media interviews.  You can call or email the show live to ask questions.

 

I did a lot of radio interviews last year, and noticed that I have a tendency to get a binsy bit over excited and talk too much. It is always easier for an interviewer to try to shut up an over-talker than to have to draw out someone with not much to say. So I developed an interview technique which basically consisted of taking a deep breath and gabbling for Ireland until someone with a big cork turned up to silence me. Sorry about that. Blame the nerves.

 

This year I am aiming to make like Harold Pinter and.........

 

 

pause.........

 

 

...............occasionally.

 

 

 

So tune in on Wednesday for lots of useful tips and exciting..............................silence.

Media Training: Making the Most of Your Media Interviews

I have been invited on to PR101 Radio to talk about how you can promote your business through doing media interviews.  Though sometimes I think the most important part of promotion happens not so much during an interview, but before and afterwards.

When you appear in some form of media, it would be great if that led directly to oodles of clients and other opportunities finding their way to you.  And in some cases this will happen, but often it won't.  You'll have to work at it to make each piece of publicity go a little further for you. 

You can:

• Send copies of your media coverage to new, previous and potential clients.  Most people will be interested that someone they know is appearing on TV (and if they're not, make it super simple for anyone to unsubscribe from your mailings).
• Use it for additional material on your website or blog.  If you're quoted in an online  feature, the simplest thing to do is to link to it.  Otherwise, you will have to get the permission of the original publisher to reprint their work.
• Use media coverage about you as part of a press pack or speakers’ pack.
• Link to it or refer to it in your newsletter.
• Tell your professional and personal network about it.  Some people avoid this as they think it means blowing your own trumpet, but the bottom line is that people who know and care about you will want to see you do well.  Also many people collect media articles about their profession so your publicity can be of benefit to others in your industry.

You can also recycle any preparation you need to do before any interview.  Don’t let this research go to waste, as you can also use the same material as the basis for an article, podcast, speech, workshop or teleclass.  How's that for energy efficiency?

AFTER YOUR INTERVIEW
Consider an interview to be the start of a long-term business relationship with that journalist.  In some cases you may never talk to that person again, but in other cases you may help each other many times over the years.  If you intend to create a mutually beneficial relationship, make plans to develop it: 

• Email the journalist to say thank you and offer to help with anything in the future.
• Say thank you to anyone else who helped you.
• Stay in touch – offer them your email newsletter

Radio Interview Horror - It Could Only Be Boris

There was a blond man who swallowed a fly

I don't know why he swallowed a fly

Perhaps he'll cry

At the London Eye

Whilst eating Shepherd's Pie

As the city goes awry

TV Interviews - What to do When You Feel Nervous

It's been a while since we had an extract from The Beginner's Guide to TV Interviews, so here's another one to add to your collection.

It's all about what to do when you're experiencing pre-show nerves.

What to do if You Feel Nervous About Your TV Interview

Congratulate yourself – you’re a human being with feelings after all.  It is absolutely 100% normal to feel a nervous surge of adrenaline before you do a TV interview.  Even TV presenters who have appeared on screen every day for years and years still regularly get the jangles.

One of the things that used to amaze me when I was working in TV was seeing some of the most famous faces in the land chain-smoking and practically throwing up with nerves before doing a simple TV appearance to plug their latest venture. 

Actors are especially prone to interview nerves, which can be surprising because you’d think that they’re trained to perform.  But whilst that’s true, remember that they’re trained to speak other people’s words and can often feel on shaky ground when they’re asked to appear as themselves, with no script. 

An actor once told me that daytime talk shows are particularly nerve-wracking for his profession, because that’s what they all watch when they’re ‘resting’ between jobs.  He knew all his mates were likely to be scrutinising his performance when he was on This Morning. 

Personally, I think it’s kind of comforting to know that even big names get the collywobbles.  Think about that the next time you watch someone being interviewed on TV – 5 minutes beforehand they were probably a gibbering wreck in the green room

The kinds of things I’ve seen people use to conquer their TV nerves include:
• Alcohol – not as in getting blind drunk, though some do indulge in a discreet tot of brandy from a hip flask.  Probably not a good idea for the morning shows though.
• Cigarettes
• Bach Rescue Remedy
• Nail biting
• Caffeine
• Arguing with partners/agents/production crew
• Deep breathing
• Repeated visits to the toilet
• Illegal Drugs
• Walking up and down in the corridor repeatedly
• Rehearsing what they want to say

In truth, none of these responses is the definitive one, and I’m certainly not recommending that you take up booze and fags simply to make the passage into TV stardom a little easier.  But one of the most useful things you can do to prepare yourself for TV interviews is to take some time now to know yourself and how you best deal with nerves. 

One great book that will help you with this is Susan Jeffers’ classic Feel The Fear and Do It Anyway – I recommend reading this book if nerves are the only thing stopping you from going for TV success.  And even if you never read it, the title alone is a great mantra to carry with you.

Remember that your nerves will always be more apparent to you than anyone else.  They will see a gliding swan, no matter how madly the legs are kicking underneath.

(c) Joanne Mallon 2008

This article is extracted from The Beginner's Guide To TV Interviews.  The full ebook can be ordered via this page.

Media Training: How To Look Good On TV

Here's a top notch post from the TV Insider about how to look good on TV.  A big head is important, apparently (literally, not figuratively, that is.  We're talking yer actual bonce, not your capacity for arrogance).

And once you've got your noggin dimensions right, you'll be wanting to dress appropriately.  Here's what The Beginner's Guide to TV Interviews has to say about what to wear when appearing on TV.

~

YOU LOOKING AT ME?
Your first TV appearance is a terrifically exciting event, and you’ll probably spend aeons carefully honing what you want to say. You’ll also probably spend quite some time preparing what to wear. This isn’t just facile preening.  It’s a vital part of the process because TV is primarily a visual medium - how you look is an important part of the package.

So, to save you some time, here are the rules:

• Don’t wear all black. You’ll look as though you’re disappearing into a hole.  This often throws women into a panic, as we love the slimming properties of black, especially when TV can make you look slightly heavier than you are in real life.  Black trousers or skirt will normally be fine as a filmed interview will generally concentrate on your top half, so do go for a colour on top if you can.

• Don’t wear all white. It makes TV lights bounce back and you’ll look as though you just descended from the heavens on a cloud.

• Don’t wear anything with a very small pattern such as pin-stripes, tweed or polka dots. Again, it has a strange effect on TV lights known as strobing.  Men should avoid pinstripe shirts – bring a change of clothes if you’re not sure.

• No visible logos of companies or brands (watch out for this particularly on sportswear) as this may be regarded as advertising.  You may be asked to change if a logo is too obvious.

• Avoid buying a new outfit the day before and acting as if you’re going to a job interview. If you feel too stiff and formal in your clothes this will affect how you express yourself.

• If you can’t decide what to wear, bring a change of clothes – plenty of people do and it can be a good idea if your original choice turns out to be unsuitable.

• Ask if there are any colours you should avoid wearing.  This can happen if they clash with the set, or if an effect called ChromaKey is to be used – this is the effect which is used as the basis of some special effects, where a particular colour is replaced by pictures.  The usual colours affected by this are green and blue (this is why it’s commonly known as blue or green screen effects).  So if you were in a studio where this effect was being used and you happened to be wearing a blue tie, you could look as if you had a big hole in the middle of your body, which will probably not enhance your corporate image.

• Look congruent with how you want to come across – if your message is sober and serious, dress appropriately. Likewise, if your message is fun and frivolous you can probably leave the navy suit at home.  Some TV professionals reckon that wearing pastel colours can make you look younger, but you may not necessarily want to look younger, especially if you’re appearing in an expert role.

It’s worthwhile bearing these guidelines in mind any time you meet a member of the media, even if it’s non-visual interview such as radio or print. How you look will still have an impact on how you are perceived, so make sure you give the impression you intend to on all levels.

And in case you were wondering, it is true that television can make you look as if you’re a few pounds heavier than you are in real life.  It’s all to do with the fact that a TV picture is made up of a series of horizontal lines, and other technical reasons I won’t bore you with.

Suffice to say, when you meet people who regularly appear on TV, they often look much smaller and slimmer than you might expect – this is because many TV presenters (especially female ones) decide to keep as skinny as possible in order to look regular size on the box. 

Now, how you regard this is up to you.  I’m not telling you this so you can all rush out and join Weight Watchers.  It’s just something else about the process to be aware of and take into consideration.  You really don’t have to look a particular way or be a particular weight to appear on TV, but it will help your over-all performance if you are happy and confident in your own skin, whatever size that may be.

~

(c) Joanne Mallon 2008 - Extracted from The Beginner's Guide to TV Interviews.  Full book available here.